My Suggestion to Fixing the Promote Feature (Let's Make SBD Burning Great Again)

in steemit •  6 months ago

It's pretty much a consensus on Steemit that the Promote feature is broken, or at least that it's not all that it could be.

The rise and dominance of vote buying bots is no doubt a direct result of new users - and olders, to boot - struggling to get noticed.

No one wants to swim through the New feed in order to look for content because it's filled so much garbage and noise. A lot of people have the people they follow and that's that, which results in people not already followed by big enough users being virtually invisible.

Well, social media is hard and getting noticed always takes effort. Steemit shouldn't be "free".

But maybe something could be done to ease the pain a little.

The vote buying bots are getting a lot of negative press, but I'm not here to argue for or against. Be those as they may.

For argument's sake, however, let's assume that an alternative is needed. That alternative could be the Promote feature, but in its current form people are no doubt discouraged from using it; a lot of people are saying they never even check the Promoted tab, so there's a good chance it's just a waste of your SBD. Shoulda just bought BTC with it, bro.

Here's how I would do it:

  • User promotes a post with 100 SBD, for example. That 100 SBD gets sent to @null and burned, reducing the supply and benefitting the entire community, just like now.
  • The UI - not the chain - would add the burned amount of SBD to the post's potential payout, placing it somewhere on the Trending page if the amount is sufficient enough. The 100 SBD would not be part of the payout "for real", but the algorithm would treat the post as if it was.

The benefits:

  • Obviously, a better incentive to burn SBD, which is always a good thing.
  • "Competition" to the vote bots. This way, no one has to be for or against the voting bots, or engage in the neverending in-fighting in regards to them. The market would simply decide which manner of advertising serves the userbase better.
  • Freshening up of the Trending Page. The same people are all over the Trending Page and there's very little that can be done about it. Some people don't mind, others feel that it's to the detriment of Steemit. Just like with the above point, this feature would simply offer more competition without flag wars and whatnot.
  • People would be incentivized to work hard on the content they promote to the Trending Page; burning the money, as opposed to buying a vote, would be a risk, so the user would likely not promote pointless spam and word filler. This could theoretically lead to more "genuine" stuff occupying the Trending Page. This isn't guaranteed, though, but it could still spice things up.

I think it makes sense. It's pretty much the traditional, most natural form of advertising: you spend money to be seen by more people, in the hopes of gaining new followers who have never come across your stuff before.

This is basically what's done with the vote bots right now, but the added caveat here is obviously the burning of SBD.

If the UI still showed the burned amount - and that the post was burnpromoted - it could even lead to goodwill among some stakeholders who would prefer to support a user who is taking the risk of burning SBD as opposed to using a vote bot.

Personally, I'd like to use this method for posts that I feel are important. Sometimes I have something political I want to get off my chest to get some conversation going, for instance. Or it could be an idea for Steemit, or what have you.

I just personally don't want to use a vote buying bot, nor do I think the Promoted tab is worth it.

I think this would be an overall improvement that wouldn't really step on the toes of anyone enjoying the current status quo. At worst, it'd just be competition, and since Steemit is all about the free market, competition should be welcomed.

Also: these people are burning SBD, which makes them, de facto, the most valuable people on Steemit. If anyone deserves the trending spots, it's them.

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I would actually like to see this happen but I would change one thing:

Accept STEEM instead of SBDs.

You want to promote your posts while benefiting the blockchain/network? Burn the blockchain’s primary/utility/PoS tokens that are being inflated while also creating demand from new users and those who are social media savvy and know the value of promoting content.

And once this feature is functional, we can then roll back the entire delegation thing that has turned out to be a failure in practice.

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If REAL advertisers plus those wanting to promote their blogs from time to time had to buy STEEM just to burn it...

WIN WIN

For everyone.

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Yeah, I mean why not.

I think the promoted posts should be labelled as such as well. I nice little icon beside the headline(much like what we'd see with a 100% power up post) would be sufficient. That way, content consumers cannot be misled by advertising and instances of false advertising. I believe an open and honest approach to advertising here would benefit everyone.

All forms of advertising on the internet now are typically labelled as such. I believe Steemit should get with the program. If I'm watching Youtube, the ads are labelled so I don't sit there watching something that has nothing to do with what I wanted to watch in the first place. I wanted to see cat videos. Why is this guy telling me about Wix.com and where is the goddamn cat?

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After hitting "post", I actually thought the same thing. I agree. You saved me the trouble of editing.

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Teamwork. This post would even help make the boss rich so I think @ned should upvote this post at least 90% power. I'll settle for the other 10%. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to help make the place great again.

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cheeky ;)

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I'm sure the guy has a sense of humor. I already know I'm not getting that vote... LOL

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I like it.

@promoted had a good thing going on, but I'm not sure if they're still active. They might be? But I can't say whether or not they're still alive, haven't interacted with them since they started up.

Here's a quick link to their initial post: https://steemit.com/steem/@heimindanger/don-t-use-vote-selling-bots-use-promoted-instead-a-bot-that-upvotes-you-when-you-burn-money

Those are quite cool suggestion , but i think everyone should be on board .

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Care to elaborate?

You talked about this before and its a fab idea (not to mention if we return to the SBD dollar peg then this burning of SBD could self regulate the market almost, taking strain off the witnesses to continually have to step in to fix it) and its got the added bonus and I want to make this clear to everyone, its exactly what you said:

It's the UI not the blockchain that would display said payout and thus would not dramatically effect everyone else's payouts...I mean come on.

Wouldn't everyone be happy with something like this? @schattenjaeger have you tried reaching out to >insert-developer-here< or else people with this ideas I can seriously see them working

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@ned doesn't like me very much. :)

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now whys that??

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Because I don't keep my mouth shut.

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I can see how that can be a problem :/ ( I edited to show the bromance issues :( )

Okay, I really had to think about this one and check what's in the promoted tab at this time.

A general thought about burning SBD. While I agree this is beneficial for everybody it also depends on the amount that gets burned in total.
As long as we're creating faster than we're burning, we will keep the same problems with the value.
This would not be an issue if there is a fixed final amount because at one time you would reach that threshold, but with an unlimited amount, which I think is the case for Steem, we need other incentives to burn large quantities and making it worthwhile for people.

Now, back to you;
To be very honest, I hardly ever check the promoted tab, but the same is true for Trending and Hot. I do occasionally check the New tab.

Trending, Hot and Promoted to me are vanity tabs, you get there because you are already successfull, and you can buy your way onto this tab. Or you already have a large follower base, lifting you into those stratospheres automatically. This makes them completely useless.

There is something strange with these tabs, how is the ranking decided?
Looking at the Promoted tab, I see posts with a value of over $290, with 818 votes, and at the same time, 4 down, a post with a value of just over $12, with 1830 votes.
And below that a post with a value of $81,50, with 84 votes.

This is the reason these tabs don't work, it just makes no sense.
Why would I pay, if I pay and are still number 200 in the list, I wasted money.

I think the only way to resolve the issues is to get rid of these useless tabs and introduce proper language support, and communities.

That's still not a definitive solution, but let me think about that ;-)

This is a really good idea, we all have seen this trending page issue and as you said before, theres no much we can do with it, we all have to struggle with the few views we are getting, I made a post about Mt.Gox a couple of days ago, trying to see if it could reach a couple of more views without using any bot, and it was the same thing as always, $0.60 and less than 12 views. I hope the next hardcore could bring a solution to this problem about bots, trending page and almost the same trash as the new tab.

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Resteemed that post for you, bro.

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thanks a lot bro :) I also resteemed yours :)

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Thanks, coolbeardbro!

This is probably the best idea I've seen in a very long time here. It would solve the dilemma for those of us who don't use the bid bots. It would take some fancy coding but it can be done.

It's hard to stop being virtually invisible, not just here but in the complete environment, there's a lot of people abusing the system, and as you said it's a free market, and I don't know if it's for my ignorance or for lack of information, but I think the attention and effort should focus on spreading or even settling the philosophical foundations of the platform and in attracting or encouraging users to participate not only in benefits withdraws. Thanks!

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I still believe in my philosophy of "social media is hard", though. Bloggers spend years trying to get noticed. So, people on Steemit shouldn't expect things to come for free, either.

But I do think this would be a good feature that wouldn't interfere with the free market principles.

Spend money to make money is the American way anyway.

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Yes, it's really difficult, topicality, skills, timing... a whole ocean.
The complete idea of a blockchain social media is pretty good, and I believe in it, however, at least I, came here expecting to see something else, tired of the social lie, it surprised me enough and here I continue because I think it's worth it, but I also believe that a lot of people are misleading the concept, and I'm not the one to judge it, nevertheless, I guess it wouldn't be bad to see more activity and effort in logistics or in the consensus system.

i like it too. good idea i think

I don't know... your suggestion would still benefit the people who have lots of money + many followers, right?

I mean yes it sounds like a better (until proven wrong) solution compared to bots but I think the whole problem is way bigger: The powerful decide.

I appreciate all suggestions but I think Steem isn't rewritten to take power from the rich and give it to the poor... like Steemit Hood :D

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Well, it shouldn't be. There's nothing wrong with people having money. And of course people who have more money will have an easier time with... pretty much everything in life. It's the nature of money.

But this would give an alternative to people wanting to advertise their work but not wanting to use the vote bots.

It'd be a risk, but advertising in the real world is always a risk: you spend money on advertising without a complete guarantee of returns.

That's just business.

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How do the people running steemit feel about the current state of the platform? I'd love to see their take on what it's become. They'd have to whole heartedly get behind an effort to weaken the botculture with what you're proposing here, and I'm not sure burning their currency is profitable for them (correct me if I'm wrong for sure).

My two biggest turn-offs on steemit right now are what you're talking about here, and the empty circle jerk of fake support and ethusiasm that is encouraged by the simple "vote for me and i get paid" nature of steemit. I'm still thinking of a way to fix that second problem. Ideas welcome. Also I'm curious if that shit bothers other people as much as it bothers me and a few others i know on steemit.

What you said here makes sense but people will still flock to voting bots because I feel that the advertisement from voting bots is an indirect effect. The actual effect, those who use voting bots aim at is profit. Promoting a post has no guarantee of a whale upvote or any upvote at all. But with voting bots, you get rewards.

If the promote option can be amended in such a way that half or a quarter of the sbd you used to promote the post goes into the payout, it would even the scales a bit.

I am still new here and I have never used either the promote tab or the voting bots that is causing so much angst on the platform but I feel that if voting bots are available for those with the funds to get their attention, then there should be something besides curation for the minnows to get into the trending categories. What do you think?

@erodedthoughts led me to your post and it is indeed a good one as he said. Stay safe. Peace.

really wll your post

well the idea is pretty interesting and we are with you bro!

upvoted and followed!!

I like the idea, even though I use bots. I’ve been struggling a lot with the not being noticed thing for months and I have in to the bod bots a while ago. The problem for me with bid bots is that they are profitable, so people will use them. If the promote feature becomes more profitable people will use it instead of bots. I think that when communities roll out they are going to change a lot of this stuff.