I'd Take @krnel Over This Shit

in steemit •  last month

@krnel and I have had our differences, and will continue to do so, but looking at the Trending Page these days, it does make me feel nostalgic for the days when we at least had to pretend that our content was good, intellectual, philosophical, meaningful and such shit.

It at least made the community look better, and Steemit look less like a desperate money grab where the posts are just an excuse.

I mean come on.

This can't be okay. Yes, it's amusing to a point. I did get my laughs out of it. Multiple times, even. But now that it's out of my system, this just makes me sad.

How many of you are old enough to remember @msgivings?

He/she/I'mnotsure was one of the first big trending names on Steemit in the summer of 2016. The account raked in thousands per post, until being exposed as a plagiarizer. Apparently, it was a bot creating those posts by combining phrases from existing articles.

Or something like that.

The account was nuked immediately.

I remember that sending a message to me, as a member of a platform that was still new and fresh, that we really need to be careful with what we post; it's bullshit and it gets too popular, people will call you out on it, you get nuked and your account is forever dead. All in an instance.

These days?

No one just seems to care. There doesn't seem to be any moderating going on.

And mind you, I'm not just talking about everybody's favorite guitar hero here. He's just the most blatant example of what I feel is wrong with the place these days.

In my subjective experience, that is. If people feel things are peachy, I can't really argue with a subjective experience. But right now, Steemit is not really a site I'd like to show to a smart friend of mine.

"So, uhh, this is the place where you post?"

"Umm, yeah. Look, the trending page is really bad, but..."

"Dude, why do you post here? What's actually wrong with you? Show me on this doll where you were touched, causing the traumas you are now handling by posting on a site like this. Please, I want to help."

It'd get real awkward real quick.

Somewhere along the line, something changed. It seems. I remember thinking a few years ago that due to Skin in the Game the whales would be incentivized by the profit motive to moderate the site in order to make it as appealing as possible for new users and investors.

I don't know what happened. I guess making money off of the site itself became too easy and there's no need for one to have any skin in the game.

Why wouldn't I do what this guy with his guitar and blank stare into the empty void here is doing? Why wouldn't I just clog the trending page with, I dunno, three-line poetry about how it's important to believe in yourself and remembering that it's the inside what counts.

And then read the hundreds and hundreds of comments by minnows praising my deep philosophy.

Damn, if only I was dumb enough to think the praise in such a situation was sincere and not just gullible people thinking that anyone with a big payout is a big shot, so kissing his or her ass will be profitable.

If only.

What do you guys think?

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Sort Order:  trending

I think the fact that people are able to buy votes for their posts - no matter how crappy they are - is a heavy load on the system. It’s not about the content you create, it is about how much money you can invest.

As a result, if - as a minnow - you want to get your post seen, you’re almost forced to play along.

I don’t agree when you say it has become too easy to earn. Thousands of minnows and red fish are struggling each day to try to get a basic understanding of how the platform works, working for hours trying to produce a quality piece of content, only to earn cents...
It’s the minority that can spend big bucks and throw hundreds of Dollars at the bots to get their post to trending and “earn” hundreds of Dollars.

It’s a shame they are the billboard of a platform where so many people at least try to create a good piece to post.

This platform is killing itself. Such a shame, ‘cos there is a truckload of potential. But Blockchain technology is evolving fast, and sooner or later another platform will be created and SteemIt will die alone...

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I agree, Steem and Steemit started off with some big issues which have allowed inequality to rise and an oligarchy to reign . I think @dan has learned some big lessons and will code a better system on EOS.
If Steemit is to survive some major changes will have to happen but the ones with the most power to make those changes are the ones that benefit from the way things are.
Vote buying should have been banned from the start.
Rant over. I will still continue the produce content here and try to be the change I want to see on steemit, i suppose that's all I can do.

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Same here. I’m not a top notch writer, but I’m giving it my best to produce valuable content. Also, I’m trying to pass on that message to newcomers :0)

SteemIt, Inc has made it pretty clear they are not building SteemIt, they are building Steem Blockchain

We are in a time of Limbo, before communities and SMTs.

I quit thinking of it as social media. You have entered the game of Steem. The rules are murky and the payout is Steem.

One must first suspend all judgments, then you can do anything that doesn't physically harm anyone.

Make as many accounts as you like, earn, rent, borrow or beg Steem and then the goal is to get as much steem as you can without drawing agroo from the community. A little bit of aggro is okay, but if they break out and flag you, it takes away health points.

There are tools along the way, gather peers, voting bids, and collusion to assist you in grabbing as much steem as possible.

Suit up! This is fun.

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Haha. I know that you're correct. This is how I play. And every time I play this way, the view count is a lot higher than whenever I choose not to.

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Whatever works. As I have stated before, I enjoy your perspective, and I usually enjoy your posts.

I was referred to this by post by another account, that originally commented on one of my posts. So maybe curation is still working somewhere.....but that's a whole other topic.

I have been writing about this a bit lately. I wonder where Steemit is heading.... I have a friend who referred to Steemit initially. He never got involved with the platform but I did. Now when I talk to him about it, and try to get him onboard, his reaction is:

"Why the hell would I want to do that..."

Very much like

"Dude, why do you post here? What's actually wrong with you? Show me on this doll where you were touched, causing the traumas you are now handling by posting on a site like this. Please, I want to help."

The best I can come up with that I can show him how to work some bots, and make easy money. Its not at all related to the content.

My thoughts are here if you are interested:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@aghunter/just2random-is-leaving-steemit-and-this-is-a-real-problem

It's rare I'll upvote 100% but this totally deserves it. He does not belong on the trending page. Nor the hot page.

This post needs to be seen by the whales who nuked the plagiarism account. I wish I was around to see early steemit in all it's glory. Maybe one day...

I feel a big problem is we never had any good post promotion.
The promote tab was never fully implemented, not did it seem to work well.
It didn't get your posts noticed.

So, now people pay an upvote bot to get onto the trending page.

Further, we do not have a single person to nuke, we have a million little blood sucking fleas. All self voting, and often never seen without the use of forensic tools.

So, i feel what steem is missing is an actual search function.
To find the good stuff you are looking for.

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I'd do it like this:

I promote a post with 100 SBD by sending the 100 SBD to @null, burning it.

The SBD would be burned on the chain, but the UI would treat the 100 SBD as being part of the post's potential payout, which would place the post somewhere on the trending page.

So, effectively, a post could start with a $100 payout, getting seen by more people, and being more interesting, attracting more clicks.

The poster could then get more engagement, followers, and all that good stuff.

This way, people could advertise their posts, and the money wouldn't go to bot owners, but would get burned instead, which would benefit the entire community.

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so they wouldn't actually get the 100SBD but its more like a willow-the-wisp to attract organic interactions, I really like that idea

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You got it.

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I'd say burn 100SBD to show $200 payout. That gives a real incentive to burn SBD. I heard SBD is a debt instrument. Less debt is a good thing IMO.

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@schattenjaeger

Can this be easily done right now? Why aren't more people doing it that way, I'd like to know. Any ideas?

You're right. That is much better in the long run than most current ways to promote a post.

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It would take some additional coding on Steemit INC's part, and they're usually not that interested in developing the site.

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This is just what we need. Unless you already have followers, you need to be on trending or hot to get noticed. It's like finding good games on steam. We need better searching.

It seems that these bots are to easy to set up and dont care for any content only the money. I do yous bots myself just to get some notice but its on unique post that I create. Not mindless dribble with a guitar.
Who thought it was a good idea to post multiple times and pay god knows how much to get up the rankings on all posts. Did he think we wouldn't notice an elvis wannabe clogging up the trending page.

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Thats exactly it, I'm currently at college studying video art but would love to not go to university this year and use things like this platform to promote my work; but I quickly learnt bots are the only way this is possible and its incredibly sad. I suppose my eventual idea if I establish a following is to create an actual art promotion platform using my post rewards its just taking blood sweat and tears to get there and its depressing seeing people like this gaming the system with little to no backlash and little fish like me are scared of hitting that flag button incase of a whale backlash what a mess...but its discussions like this that raise the community consciousness for sure

Sweet Jesus. I'm going back to bed, I think I am still hallucinating. Must warn friends away from this place.

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I think it was Steemit that caused your illness.

But I was mad at you there for a second. I was like "So, I decide to stick around and now YOU'RE leaving me here? Dude!"

But okay, you were sick.

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You are actually one of the very few I would tell I was leaving before simply dropping off the map.

Steemit has reached levels of ridiculousness rarely seen, interesting only as a social experiment. I'm still here because of about 30 people, and I have been seeing people disappear over the last months that were on that list. And they weren't sick, I don't think, just sickened or bored or unwilling to share a platform with schemers any longer.

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Steemit doesn't even pretend to be anything that could be taken seriously at this point. For about a year-year and a half, it at least pretended.

TBH, when i returned from vacation, i took a look around with a clear head...it feels a lot like MySpace from my perspective. I see uncaring everywhere.

I am new to Steemit
So can't really make my mind up on anything yet.. But what started of with huge enthusiasm from my part, did turn sour quickly, realising things operate the same everywhere, the "big guys" just get bigger, and the small ones will never have a real true voice, anywhere..
Humans, we are good at practically ruining everything we touch ..
Greed is what is killing this platform
but that's just my 2 cents 🤗

Steemit is the worst form of social media, except for all the others.
To quote.. someone:)

agreed. now steemit is just crowded with bunch of ppl putting up garbage to make a quick buck or misinform ppl.

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We've always been here to make a buck. Nothing really wrong with making a buck. People go to work all over the world for the same exact reason.

But people used to at least pretend like you somehow had to earn it.

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back then ppl were considered to be adding content. now, it's something else, its being flooded with "content". steemit needs to evolve. im confident it will. or it will get gobbled up by someone else who will. if that happens, i hope it's as decentralized as steemit, if not more.

A question I've been asking myself lately is if someone could make an alternative page to Steemit.com, where the main difference is that you can subscribe to different filter lists. The page would still sort content by pending payout as usual, however the filter lists would make sure that certain votes are not counted for the order. So effectively you could have a filter list that sorts the content for you but leaves all the commonly used bought upvotes as well as large self upvotes or upvotes commonly associated with abuse out of there. Hopefully that could potentially result in a better trending page/general post order, with content that has actual people backing it's value.

I don't think this would deliver perfect results right away, but I do believe it could have a fair chance to at least improve the results you're presented with on Steemit.com right now. As anyone can choose whatever filter lists they want to subscribe to, abuse should technically be kept low. The plan is not to have a single person or group of people be in charge of a default filter list that's automatically applied when using the website.

Pay to win system is never something I would participate in, aka. you don't need to be good to succeed. I wish people would at least make something worth reading if they pump their posts to trending list, but instead is's all bullshit central, shitposts with huge numbers. Isn't that the state we were always in, most of the time?
Things do tend to change on this platform, nothing will last forever, communities should at least improve something, I hope.

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Pay to win already ruined gaming.

Steemit is like a modern Triple A franchise; posting is free, but actual eyeballs, engagement, attention and all of the reasons why anyone even posts anything anywhere are like the DLC that's mandatory to purchase in order to "win".

Because everybody else is buying all the DLC and loot boxes, you automatically lose if you don't participate.

Unless you're something really different like a chick who shows her tits.

I'm talking about genuine content.

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Most definitely. Check my blog payouts lately, I bought no DLCs or loot boxes :)

Been on Steemit since August 2017, and I am starting to feel like my posts are improving in quality, but payouts are steadily decreasing. Disappointing, because it makes me question sometimes if my posts are total crap and I am wasting my time sharing content with people who have little vote value, and only comment nice things because they want my more valuable vote back.

There are a lot more people using posts that payback the people who upvote it. I am guilty of using a couple lately, and I am concerned that this might be why original posts are decreasing in value, making room for the repetitive content to fill up the feeds.

While in the past my followers used to upvote me as their 8th or 9th favorite account to upvote, I might not even be in their top 20, because all their daily votes are going to some money making bot they are investing in.

Do you think there is some truth to that?
@creativetruth

image
If only we knew how he does it

I totally agree. I'm writing original posts with thought-provoking content and nobody gives a shit because Steemit has been left to fall apart. People arent here to read and connect over issues or topics .. its just about the money. So that tells us everything we need to know about this experiment: monetized content turns to shit, and any good stuff is trapped under a layer of crud at the top. I wonder what the hell I'm doing here, but that's another issue ...

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I wouldn't say that the problem is necessarily the fact that everybody "only cares about the money". That doesn't have to be the big bad boogeyman in all of this.

There are lots and lots and lots of giant corporations and conglomerates that have been built solely in order to make money.

And they function very well.

The fact that people like money can never be changed, so it's a waste of time to even complain about it. It's a better idea to accept that fact, and then design the algorithms around that fact.

The things that you are talking about are real, but how can they be changed? What can we do in order to change this? I feel that the greed is too much and it just removes the nature of the things right here.

Well, whatever will happen, I am not okay giving up on Steem(it) and I will not be okay to admit that the content here is just bad. I will help it will get better with time and continue my activities here. I know I can't do much, I am just a minnow if you consider SP, but I know that I can convince people not to give up.

I’m still trying to figure wtf it is. I thought I might have been missing something.

Thanks for sharing!

When a picture of a cat can earn someone a massive payout, it sadly says it all about the platform.

Then there are the posts with a video thats over an hour long, yet 5 seconds after it's been posted the upvotes and comments on how amazing it is start flooding in, when there is no way they have even watched half of the video.

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To be fair, though. The 5-second thing happens on other social media, as well. Hell, I myself am I quasi-known name in my country's "social media circles", which means I've attracted quite a few fanboys. These fanboys will "like" everything I post on Facebook. And they usually do it in a few minutes, even if it's a really long post that one really won't read all the way through in such a short time.

But yeah.

Oh Boy, don't I remember this.

I was called a hater, a negative person, toxic, you name it. I could see through his bullshit from the first days he joined by observing closely the way he responded to my posts.

He was just some nutjob deep into the spiritual/alternative crap talking nonsense. How many of those did we have? How many of those took hundreds of thousands in rewards, made a fortune and left?

Where are the apologies from the moronic whales that supported them? Probably lying in a beach somewhere sipping mojitos.

Three-line poetry, isn't that a haiku? You would be trending the trending page.

But I agree, there is a lot of BS on Steemit. I don't think there is any way to get around that, there is a lot of BS on FB as well, but you don't see it that much because you're limited to your circle of influence.

It makes steemit a serious challenge to find something of interest, and if you have found something, try and recover that post.
Point in fact, yesterday I saw a post on my phone and decided to follow up with a response today. Now, do you think I can find that post again? No f*** way.

Steemit is more quantity over quality, without a decent system to save/store what you find interesting. We have a long way to go.

If this is due to the "skin in the game", I don't know. Maybe so, but a "social network" that requires you to have skin in the game will die out quickly.

Btw, if you have (smart) friends that walk around with dolls so people can point out where they were touched, please reconsider. Does not sound healthy at all ;-).

Loving your posts, keep it up.

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Haha. :D

Okay, well, yeah, uhh. He's Tom. He's different, okay?

But I'm glad you enjoy the stuff. :)

I guess making money off of the site itself became too easy and there's no need for one to have any skin in the game.

I think that's it in a nutshell. I think people are here to pull rewards from it and ride the wave of Steem before they jump off. While financial equity and capital equity are, in theory, equally important, most of our users don't seem to view it as such. Unfortunately, I think a stronger shift in incentives towards curation is the only way to improve this situation.

To me, this all stems from the trending algorithm though. It isn't made to showcase talent. The hot tab is equally woeful. Whales are not the right mechanism to decide whether or not content is good.

I honestly feel that the condensers should step up in this arena. Systems like @busy.org and/or @chainbb can change the trending algorithms on their own without a hardfork. It won't change the payouts, but if effective, could possibly reward the better authors and remove the trash from the front page. They could possibly swing a chunk of the web traffic away from Steemit. This would give those of us who cringe to introduce friends another option.

In this way, people can advertise their writing, and the money will not go to the bot owner, but it will burn, which will benefit the whole community.
Warm regards