Are you selling your idle vote power through a service? If so, you should periodically review what you're voting on. Do your part.

in steem •  3 months ago

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Hello, Steem world.

As we focus on other things in life, we have idle vote power here on the Steem platform. Idle vote power is just that, idle; potential influence that isn't influencing anything. To me, that's wasteful and isn't helping our little machine here tick. We come up against issues such as abuse and people trying to "milk the system," which sucks! I think that we can all agree on that.

So what do we have now, in this day and age of Steem? Services that allow your influence (vote power) to be purchased and aimed at whatever someone wants to target. Services that do not require delegation to another entity but allows you to sell your vote (which grants you the ability to retract that vote if you want to). You still get to have that element of control.

If your stake is used to vote/influence something that you personally do not want to support for any reason, you can retract that vote (unvote), and I think that you should! But of course, use discretion when doing so, someone just paid for that vote.

What I'm getting at is the trending page is pretty garbage at the moment and we need to do something about it, we need to be proactive. We have a lot of people half-assing posts and paying themselves fat, which affects the trending page in a bad way, let alone the rewards pool that attracts us all here.

If you're selling your votes, you should go and see what your stake is voting on. If it votes for what you perceive as garbage, UNVOTE IT.

Sure, this may raise the moral dilemma of "well, they paid for it so you shouldn't unvote it." Well, yeah, they paid for it, but we also have the ability to think something sucks and isn't worth $500. Un-voting overpaid garbage content helps balance the reward pool and at the same time, helps reality check people. Being greedy is bad! Think about how your actions on the platform ultimately affect everyone else in the grand scheme of things.

I personally have always kept my stake in motion, trying to make sure it never hits 100% vote power so that this system works. For the past ~2 years, I've given my votes away constantly, trying to give people a piece of the pie. Recently, I plugged into Smart Steem in order to give myself a bit of a break and still keep my stake in motion while getting a little monetary kickback.

My current setup on Smart Steem is this:

This means that if my vote power hits 99%, my vote is up for sale. But any time that my vote power is below 99%, I am voting manually and giving my vote away, as you all should be doing as well (in my opinion).

TL;DR: Bots are COOL, but only as cool as people employ them to be. If you're selling your vote on a vote selling platform, check on what you're voting on and if it sucks, unvote it! Don't get greedy, vote on good content, network with people, make connections, make this work!

If you're interested in doing what I'm doing, follow the little banner below. The Smart Steem platform gives you control over many important facets and if you put the features to use, it reduces the amount and impact of vote-selling abuse:

I just wanted to rant a little bit :). Hi! Been a while.

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I always run out of voting power!
It would be nice if you could indicates tags when selling your vote or a minimal character length of the post. I know that these 2 funtions will not eliminate the risk that your vote will be sold to shitty posts!

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Good ideas. Maybe make a post about that and tag some bot owners?

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Mmh, when not written correctly they could wipe out my complete rep! Also not sure how I should address it!

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This is totally possible, and may help reduce the crap content receiving votes a little.

It's going to require some work from the bot owners though. They will need to create a profile space for each seller, where they can choose the minimum char length, tags to avoid etc.

Good thinking!

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Also the trending and hot pages could be altered, by adding the number of comments to the algortihm!
I don’t know if the bots owners have to be involved in this! It would be great if they do but it is not required. It is just the algorithm which have to be adjusted. Most of us know the important bots!
What also would be nice is that post can climb the rankings based on the interaction. Post authors would be forces to interact on the comments! Without this they never would have a chance!

I’m full of good ideas 😂

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your post very helpful for us

I recently undelegated the SP that I had given to a couple bot-services. I did not want to be liable for promoting any posts that do not fit my ideologies. At first I thought it would be great to make some dividends, but then I realized the vote is more than just a way to make money, it also voices support which can be risky business if you're not doing due diligence to see what you're supporting.

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This is exactly why I choose to not delegate and opt to simply sell -my- vote. Delegating pays you more than vote selling does, but it removes your control. If my account votes on something that's plagiarized, is just plain stupid or whatever, I don't want that "something," to get rewarded.

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Honestly, I came to find you to do exactly what you discuss here.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@alishannoor/need-suggestion-to-make-steemit-alive-for-long-term

Just terrible, from the title to the bottom.

Your choice of course, thanks!


Related, and not a call for a vote: https://steemit.com/steemit/@abh12345/what-would-steemit-look-like-if-everyone-chose-to-delegate-their-stake-to-a-bid-bot

We need the bigger players like you voting for solid content, thanks for your time.

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I unvoted that post. I've been unvoting a lot of what I perceive as abuse of the system.

If it's plagiarism or something negative/detrimental to progress, I'll go as far as to flag it.

At the same time, if I see something good that someone has posted that I think is representative of hard work/doing cool shit that they've paid to have my stake vote on, I'll drop by in the comments and give them additional large upvote on one of their comments and let them know/leave a comment myself.

I like the system I've got going on. I hope other people follow suit.

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That’s a great thing to do! But I don’t think lots of people would do this.
Most of them are just selling their votes to increase their steem power!

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You're right about that, but if you can lead by example, sometimes people will adopt what you're doing. That's what I'm hoping for anyways. If we don't proactively care for the platform, it'll surely die.

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Completely true. I am trying my best to show the way and you are too. Also it looks like things will be moving pretty fast. More and more posts about the bid bots!

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Nice one.

I like the proactive approach you have, it shows care for the community/rewards pool.

It'd be nice if more people would do this who are selling their votes. The amount of literal trash I've seen making far more than actual decent quality content on here makes me a sad panda. I think doing it your way is far smarter than just delegating your voting power to a service.

Also, get on Steemit more, mannn. Feels like it has been a century since you've posted, lol.

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Yeah, it's gross but it's up to us to make this work! Trying to do my part and be impartial haha. It's hard, but doable.

I'm always on here! Just in a more behind the scenes kinda way.

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For sure, man. Appreciate you doing your part and actually being mindful of the content you upvote.

Well, invite me to a party on ps4 or join one of mine sometime so we can chat. Just been a minute since I've talked to your crackerjack ass.

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Thanks!

And yeah for sure! I would right now, but @cybercodetwins is playing Ratchet & Clank right now haha.

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Ah, it's fine. I'm playing Fortnite with my buddy and yelling about dumb shit on here. Probably better you don't join us right now, lol.

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Hey! What we talk about is not dumb shit. It is valuable information and keeps my head clear and me staying positive with the platform. You are like my late night therapist as I thought I was yours.

I happened to be one of your "buyers", even getting an extra vote from you - Thanks a lot!

Kudos for checking everything you vote on! Setting up vote-selling, not caring at all and letting it run for month without a look could be seen as profitable side business as well - with basically no effort. Still you care a lot!

I haven't sold my vote before, so I can't speak from experience, but what's the bot owners position to unvoting "payed" votes? Are there "TOS" when giving your posting permission to them and are you "allowed" to do that? I could imagine they don't like it very much, because the complaints will end at their desk?

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Are there "TOS" when giving your posting permission to them and are you "allowed" to do that?

I suspect this falls on the Bot owners TOS? @smartsteem @therealwolf - what is the policy here with regards to removing votes issued via smartsteem/smartmarket, like @matt-a is doing here?

I could imagine they don't like it very much, because the complaints will end at their desk?

Again, i would love to hear from some bot owners here. @yabapmatt?

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That's fine by me, abuse the bot systems :-D
Would allow to double sell your vote.

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The losers here are the bidder and the seller via curation rewards - the seller also doesn't get a return of Voting power to 're-sell'.

Bot owner still keeps their SBDs.

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What I mean is that the seller could sell the vote again, maybe somewhere else. Curation reward once, selling the vote twice gaining profit from two sells. Does that make sense?

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The VP is gone, from that perspective it doesn't make a difference if you sell it twice for the same or for different posts. After unvoting you aren't eligible for curation rewards anymore, no matter what you do/vote afterwards. So selling twice is definitely a loss.

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Oh, I was under the assumption that you regain VP when unvoting and thought you could reuse it on the same or another post. If that's incorrect it doesn't make sense indeed.

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It doesn't allow you to "double sell your vote." Your vote power remains diminished and you forfeit your right to the curation reward. By unvoting, I simply sacrifice that vote power and curation reward. When you unvote, that potential reward is returned to the rewards pool for more appropriate distribution in the entire reward pool's 24 hour period.

This is why I just choose to manually vote. I don’t have to worry about it being used and abused by someone else trying get on trending with somethings they flat out just stole or frankly had zero effort into creating it.

It would be great if more people at least check in on time to time to see if they are auto voting in some manner such as this or other ways that the Steemit they want to shape is what is being reward.

Far too many seem to be focused on short term profits and who ever can pay them the most. Which sadly leads us to trending page issue. People are getting what they wanted just not in a way they wanted it. Hard to shape steemit if you let others decide who gets your stake in it.

Great post, I couldn't agree more. The trending page is looking kind of sad these days.

I don't sell my power for that very reason! :)

Thanks for the share.

This was no rant man! You made some sense here. It is a pity how some wolfs keep upvoting trash while the main guys that spend days creating quality contents go home with struggling 2sbd. Let me run before they notice my presense, Lol.

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It takes time and effort to get noticed! I see the bot system as a good way to get noticed. If someone buys a vote from me and I like their content when I'm reviewing what my stake has been used for, I'll go give them additional upvotes to encourage behavior that makes this system flourish. At the same time, I unvote garbage/abuse and sometimes flag it. Nothing speaks louder than messing with someone's "money."

@matt-a, This is very interesting, I see a lot of content that should be appreciated in steemit, original, and very informative but not appreciated steemit, but vice versa. this makes steemian beginners back in steemit, I can only read and give curation to the good post in my opinion. the rest of you who can help them ..lol

Well said, just an unvote is responsible enough. Flagging trash is a whole other issue but a simple unvote is a GREAT step that should be used more.

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I'm no stranger to doling out flags haha. I think that they're a necessary feature, and I use them to send messages.

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I agree, I just wish more users with sizeable flags felt the need to protect those who cannot do it with 1 Mega Vest worth of an account. The retaliation flags are what keep most people from flagging, I think.

There are just so many ways to game the system it will take change after change to fix things.

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Flag and explain why you're doing it! Gotta have a voice or you'll get steemrolled.

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I have no idea why there isn't a 0% option for a flag, so you can give one without affecting people's money. That is where the payback flags come from, people concerned about their money.

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You can accomplish a "0% flag," by leaving a comment. A front end tweak could also achieve this easily.

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Perhaps this is a feature that should be added considering the size of some accounts (and when price increases again).

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It is something little that hurts no one and acts more like a "dislike"
Maybe it wouldn't offend so many people if they saw people disliked their post in place of seeing it and losing money too.

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This is true, a 0% flag would act more like a private comment. Someone else might not have the same issue you do until they read the public comment. People seem to follow the herd more than think for themselves.

Another disadvantage of voting bots is that Steemit reputation system can be easily manipulated.

Just look at this post: https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@contentjunkie/no-india-has-not-banned-bitcoin-trading-government-confirms

It's literally copy-paste, who can expect such content from 70+ rep guy?

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Wow, that is bullshit. $150 payout for literally writing "Let's just squash the latest rumours out of India. Yeesh, this seems to happen every few months."

I know that guy a bit. I left him a comment. It's important to create a conversation with people doing this.

Hey @matt-a

I am pretty outspoken against bidbot abuse but, I do think there is some middle ground and it is good to see that actual users of them are now making more of an effort to limit the damage. The incentive to be passive is there but, a healthy community requires action. Thanks mate.

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My pleasure! I want this platform to work. If we don't take proactive measures, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

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If we don't take proactive measures, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

Well, it is much like the wild west here except no one has handled the gun of self-governance before.

I am negative about any manifestations of unfair profit-making here. Whether it's selling votes selling SP buying bots. All this makes the platform a place where you will not be able to come to success relying on your talent. Initially, as I understand it, our platform was created as a place for creative people to create high-quality and interesting content. And any attempt simply to hit the jackpot with some manipulation - it's not fair and it devalues the idea Steemit.
There is an honest and open way to success, but it requires patience and a lot of work. Not everyone is able to walk on it resisting the temptation of easy earnings." For me personally, the bots are unacceptable. Now I go the way my sense of justice leads me, I participate in contests, I work on myself, I go through Sndbox quests, and I'm sure that's the right way.
Of course, I would like to see the majority of the members of the community succeed with honest work and talent. But maybe it's just a utopia. And in the world of money there is always someone who knows how to cheat.

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Yup, I tried to get my account going without the use of bots but recently I started using them because 60cent payouts on some of my posts that I actually spent time on started to look depressing. It's really hard to get up there without the use of bots.

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There are many curators supporting newcomers with quality posts. Curie, OCD and many others. Look for them. use tags. And then you will be noticed, you do not need bots for this. Just keep doing your good work.

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Majority of my SP earned here is just from handful of my posts and comments. Someone finds my blog or comment and they notice not only is it undervalued but I’m undervalued overall. As such they submit my work to one of the many groups out there looking to upvote undervalued content or they give me a an upvote.

Here the real kicker. If you are spending a bunch of money on bidbots you are no longer consider “undervalued.” On top of that a large chuck of your total reward is just recovering your cost of “advertisement” if you even break even.

So it can be a double edge sword. If it does not gain you new engaging followers who come back time after time. You are now just paying someone else hoping everyone else who uses the same tags as you are have spent less to get into hot or trending.

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Yup, by using bid bots, I am pretty much just breaking even on my posts. But like you said, it is a good way to get into the hot or trending page within my community, which helps my posts get seen and hopefully gain some new followers. Eventually, getting enough followers to not need the bid bots anymore. That has been my strategy.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvote this reply.

Great article I am still learning so much it's hard to get my head around it. But that makes sense.
There is a lot of rubbish but sometimes its people that arnt educated and get mistaken for poor content.
On the other hand there's trash that needs to be removed as examples to others that are thinking of blotting there garbage on steemit.
I notice those that abuse the system, are only motivated by selfish greed and that drives them to look after number one.

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Hang in there! Keep playing with the system and more and more of it will begin to click. It won't happen overnight, that's for sure. It takes time and practice. It's an entirely new concept, after all.

This isn't a rant to me, its pure fact. I hardly visit the trending post cos I have seen the posts there don't worth those earning.

That is probably the only way in which bid bots usage could be considered responsible, by only selling the vote if the vote power is 99% or even better, 100%...

Other than that, bid bots bring more problems than solutions in my humble opinion.

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The bots themselves don't bring problems, but -how- the people who use them, do.

If somone has idle VP, I suggest to join one of the trusted curation trails (curie, steemstem, etc.) instead of selling the vote. That's the genuine solution to the problem of voting garbage.

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That's a great approach if you have the time for that. Some people are very busy the majority of the time (like me) and I can't afford to spend that time/effort.

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joining a curation trail costs less time than selling your vote - especially if you cross-check for voted bullshit afterwards. Just go to steemauto, join up, config the % of VP you want to join with and that's it. Never worry again.

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A fine call.

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Honestly, for the sake of the platform and to save you time checking up on the tripe you may have voted on, following a trail like @curie is the best way to go.

You can be rest assured that that the post has been read and reviewed, and you'll have no manual maintenance to do in checking where your votes have gone.

You'll be supporting new authors and interesting original content, and with your SP, and you are likely to sit in the top 5/10 of the 20 top voter names. This will look really good on you and you'll gain organic followers this way through your apparent appreciation of good content.

I agree it is very important to keep and eye on what your voting on, the service could vote on something you do not agree with, or dislike.

I do not know all about the globe. please help me to know her friends

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what is my friend

I do not know all about the globe yet. please help me to know all about world friends @matt-a

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I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I'm sorry. I do not understand.

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Essentially, I want to know about the globe

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Your translation is failing.

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I like posting there, voiced in that field, but I do not really understand with the post there say this .., because I just wrote here ..,
thank you for sharing

I like your post although I do not understand 30-40% of it.. perhaps in time. My voting power is 0 I believe and it will probably never change. Within 1 week time I figured out Steemit is not about good content at all. It is even hard to find good content. The whole concept/system is set up about making money. But at least my content will be saved so my children will be able to read it one day.

trust the platform