What is Tauchain & Why It Could Be One of The Greatest Inventions of All Time (Part 1: Introduction)

in blockchain •  4 months ago

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In anticipation of Tau's demo some time around the end of this year, I'd be publishing a series of articles leading up to its release and beyond on Steem. If you would like to get to know what some of us think is going to be one of the greatest inventions of all time, I'd recommend you to check out http://idni.org. It seems like a foundation that we've missed out on building together since the birth of the Internet.

A close resemblance of this project is the Semantic Web, although some of us would place Tau as being far more ambitious in scope, oddly in a way that is likely more feasible with its ingenious use of a logic blockchain to power a decentralized social choice platform. I think it's impressive how singular the concept actually is, despite the unavoidable lengthy explanations that come paired with the many first-time features that Tau will provide.

Without further ado, let's explore this world-changing technology that is currently baking in the oven.

What is Tau?

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Let's begin by first checking out the opening of IDNI's website at http://idni.org:-

Tau is a decentralized blockchain network intended to solve the bottlenecks inherent in large scale human communication and accelerate productivity in human collaboration using logic based Artificial Intelligence.

Sounds fairly straight-forward at first glance, and to me, it really stands out in the cryptosphere. We now have millions and billions of people using the Internet everyday, yet we still do not have any effective means of discussing and collaborating without being all over the place. Sure, we may have been pouring a lot of our time and effort into various platforms trying to connect with others, but have things been really any different compared to a time before the Internet?

The speed of information propagation has increased by orders of magnitude, and we can reach anyone on the planet now, but it's still really up to us to be present and be able to process information in our heads before turning them into relevant knowledge for our networks.

Expanding our social bandwidth.

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Turns out, we have been experiencing a lot of trouble coming to terms with the chatter of billions of people in cyberspace. The bottlenecks inherent in our human bandwidth remain to be unsolved even with near-instantaneous communications. From governments to corporations and blockchain communities, we are all still facing the age-old problem of being unable to scale governance beyond the size of a classroom. It's just difficult to get our points across to many different people, let alone making sense of complex long-term discussions and making network-wide decisions collaboratively.

The introduction to The New Tau written by Ohad Asor explains our situation quite accurately:-

Some of the main problems with collaborative decision making have to do with scales and limits that affect flow and processing of information. Those limits are so believed to be inherent in reality such that they're mostly not considered to possibly be overcomed. For example, we naturally consider the case in which everyone has a right to vote, but what about the case in which everyone has an equal right to propose what to vote over?

In small groups and everyday life we usually don't vote but express our opinions, sometimes discuss them, and the agreement or disagreement or opinions map arises from the situation. But on large communities, like a country, we can only think of everyone having a right to vote to some limited number of proposals. We reach those few proposals using hierarchical (rather decentralized) processes, in the good case, in which everyone has some right to propose but the opinions flow through certain pipes and reach the voting stage almost empty from the vast information gathered in the process. Yet, we don't even dare to imagine an equal right to propose just like an equal right to vote, for everyone, in a way that can actually work. Indeed how can that work, how can a voter go over equally-weighted one million proposals every day?

All known methods of discussions so far suffer from very poor scaling. Twice more participants is rarely twice the information gain, and when the group is too big (even few dozens), twice more participants may even reduce the overall gain into half and below, not just to not improve it times two.

It turns out that under certain assumptions we can reach truly efficiently scaling discussions and information flow, where 10,000 people are actually 100 times more effective than 100 people, in terms of collaborative decision making and collaborative theory formation. But for this we'll need the aid of machines, and we'll also need to help them to help us.

So how is Tau actually going to solve our communications bottleneck? It will be through a highly bespoke and non-trivial implementation of a logic-based Artificial Intelligence (AI). It's worth noting that AI in this case is more of a buzzword for marketing-speak, and it is actually not of the same variety as the commercial implementations of deep machine-learning.

The distinction that must be made is that Tau is not the kind of AI that attempts to guess what the world is around them, including that of our opinions and the things we say or do. Instead, we must make the step towards communicating through Tau and what we choose to communicate will be as definite as computer programs. It can be thought of as a persistent logic companion that helps us improve the scale our reasoning, logic, and bandwidth.

We can take the time to share what we want to share on the Tau network and most of the logic-based connections and operations will happen in the background over time, even when we're not paying attention in-person. Again, the use of the word AI is a misnomer here because it usually paints the picture of AI agents attempting to mimic human autonomy. That's not what Tau is about. In this case, thinking about Tau as just a logic machine should provide better clarity on what it actually is.

The power of logic.

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To expand, here's the second paragraph found in the opening of IDNI's website that explains Tau's paradigm in logic-based communications, http://idni.org:-

Currently, large scale discussions and collaborative efforts carried out directly between people are highly inefficient. To address this problem, we developed a paradigm which we call Human-Machine-Human communication: the core principle is that the users can not only interact with each other but also make their statements clear to their Tau client. Our paradigm enables Tau to deduce areas of consensus among its users in real time, allowing the network to boost communication by acting as an intermediary between humans. It does so by collecting the opinions and preferences its users wish to share and logically constructing opinions into a semantic knowledge base.

Indeed, Tau will offer a semantic social choice platform where we can discuss and store knowledge in a logical universe that helps us organize information, thereby empowering us in highly relevant ways. If you're worried about privacy, know that Tau is first-and-foremost designed as a local client with local processing and storage. The platform itself will be deployed as a decentralized peer-to-peer network, a place where we can connect and share our knowledge-base with anyone we desire.

The only price to pay in all of these is that we must speak in Tau-comprehensible languages, which can always be added and modified over time. A sophisticated language that can be defined over Tau may closely resemble natural languages, but it is really best to expect Tau as a machine-comprehensible language that only speaks in logic. Fortunately, logical formalism is something that we can easily deal with.

So it will be up to us to communicate with our local Tau client in a way that it'll understand our worldviews. When the machine understands what we share completely in some logical, mathematically-verifiable sense, it can then connect our dots with the rest of the Tau network, effectively boosting communications beyond the limits of human bandwidth, effectively scaling our points of discussion, consensus, and collaboration up to an infinite number of participants.

Code and consciousness.

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Finally, we look at the last paragraph of Tau's introduction at http://idni.org:-

Able to deduce consensus and understand discussions, Tau can automatically generate and execute code on consensus basis, through a process known as code synthesis. This will greatly accelerate knowledge production and expedite most large scale collaborative efforts we can imagine in today's world.

Since Tau is a logic blockchain that powers a semantic social choice platform, we can leverage it to have both small and large-scale discussions about program specifications, detect points of consensus, and even generate software in the process. Being able to go from discussions to the realization of decentralized applications would mean inclusive code development for the masses. It's also a unique addition to decentralization that no other blockchain projects have even thought about.

Now that we may have come to a better understanding of Tau's emphasis on the use of logic in every part of its being, let's revisit the process description found in The New Tau to get closer to knowing what it really is about:-

We are interested in a process in which a small or very large group of people repeatedly reach and follow agreements. We refer to such processes as Social Choice. We identify five aspects arising from them, language, knowledge, discussion, collaboration, and choice about choice. We propose a social choice mechanism by a careful consideration of these aspects.

We describe a decentralized computer network, Tau Chain, and as such, which social decisions may it support? The most that computers can do is to run programs. Over Tau Chain we can gather knowledge and agree or disagree over it, and we can also actually do something and perform actions as arises from the discussion over the platform. Those actions, are nothing but computer programs. And the most important program on our scope is the platform itself.

The main choices collaboratively be made over the system, are about the system itself. Tau, is a discussion about Tau. Or in a little more elaborate yet succinct definition:

Consider a process, denoted by X, of people, forming and following another process denoted by Y. Tau is the case where X=Y.

That's the Tau. What the Tau is doesn't matter, what matters is that it can change into anything we want it to be. Further, Tau is a computer program, so we refer to a program that changes itself up to the collaborative opinions and decisions of its users.

It should be remarked that we do not let Tau guess the people's opinion, or even perform well-educated guesses as in machine learning, and that's maybe the main reason we use logic. Things said over the platform are as formal and definite as computer programs, they just deal with generic knowledge rather machine instructions.

Having that, a collaboratively self-amending program, it can transform into virtually any program we'd like it to be, or many programs at once. Indeed Tau does not speak only about itself but open for creation of any other individual or collaborative activities, such that we make it possible for small and very large groups to discuss, share and organize knowledge, detect consensus and disagreements, and coordinate actions in forms of programs.

In short, Tau is a decentralized peer-to-peer network that takes the shape of a social choice platform, and it can become anything that we want it to be, for as long as it's expressible within the self-defining and decidable logics of FO[PFP] with PSPACE-complexity. This precise specification is required to satisfy the very definition of Tau as seen in the excerpt above. Tau is also intended to be a compiler-compiler.

This is taking application-generality into a completely different direction compared to blockchains that are built specifically with turing-completeness in mind, like Ethereum. Relevant literature to check out: Finite Model Theory.

Understanding each other.

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While it's all highly technical and difficult to grasp in one seating, perhaps a better way to truly begin to understand Tau is to spend some time studying its main features. Or just wait for the product release. In any case, I will try to explore these topics in the future if my brain can still handle it:-

  • The Internet of Languages.
  • Scaling Discussions.
  • Global Knowledgebase.
  • Accelerating and Automating Collaboration.
  • Real Time Social Choice.
  • Agoras Smart Knowledge Economy.

The more I think about Tau, the more I think that it is (poetically) a logical conclusion to the way the Internet works as a protocol. It even lives and breaths logic. Not just any kind of logic, but specifically, logics that can define their own semantics and is decidable. Tau is intelligently designed to be a truly dynamic and ever-evolving blockchain.

When the Tau community intends to make changes to the network code, rules or protocols, they will simply need to express these opinions and perspectives in a compatible language over the network. The self defining logic of the Tau blockchain network will enable it to detect the consensus among these opinions and automatically amend its own code to reflect this consensus from block to block. Unlike the common method of voting, Tau’s approach will take into account the perspectives of the entire community, where people will be free to vote and propose what to vote for in real time. This unique ability of Tau is the only decentralized solution to create a truly dynamic protocol.
An excerpt from http://www.idni.org/

Now you might think: Tau seems like a powerful tool but will it be too difficult to use for most people? There might be some learning curve involved for sure, and it'd be similar to learning a new language in the beginning. Those of us who learn to use it well enough to scale our discussions and collaborative works will likely gain a significant edge over those who are not using the platform. I'd imagine plenty of projects and communities around the world being able to overcome some of their obstacles in development through Tau. Hence, it may be fair to expect that market forces will gravitate towards the platform just like how we're all using the Internet these days.

Until the next post.

I've been thinking about Tau almost everyday for the past many months now, and I will admit that its deeper technicalities are still way out of my league, although I've made sure to word them broadly out the best I can. If you like what I do, please consider sharing this post and voting on my witness account on Steem. For more info, check out my recent witness announcement post.

As always, thanks for reading!
ありがとうございました

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I've been following this project for a while now and I truly believe the lead developer Ohad Asor is on a completely different level than any other expert I've come across. The word genius is tossed around very loosely in the tech industry, especially in the crypto space, but that man is something else entirely.

To the extent that I can follow his vision, I'm very impressed by it. And I believe he's one of the very few people on the planet who has the ability to implement this vision.

Tau is definitely worth having on your radar as it may prove to be an indispensable technology one day.

But don't take my word for it, ask him some difficult technical questions in maths, logic, cs, programming, crytpo yourself in his irc and judge him for yourself.

server: freenode
channel: ##idni
second channel: ##tau

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What I'd really like to see how this all would look like in action - even a simple mockup could go far at this point for most of us as even with more posts getting written about this, it's just hard to imagine what the end product will look like and how it can be utilized.

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there's a mock up of the demo on the website
http://www.idni.org/
I think the actual platform will be more intuitive, with the ability to add comments, pictures, links etc. along with making logical propositions

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If I’m not mistaken, that may also just be one interface for the blockchain - whereas like Steem or any other blockchain, there may be any number of applications and distinct UI’s developed, no...?

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yes, that mock up is merely just one example of an application under Tau

Tau is far more general and technically sophisticated than anything else out there. It's power arises from applying a decidable, self defining logic that allows subsequent blocks to be entirely defined by previous block accordingly to the real time specifications of its users.

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Thanks, it seems the site has gone over total overhaul and looks polished now. The mock up also looks promising.

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So many chains, so many hypes! Reality check, all these hypes and chains won't even last a year or two, let alone practical usability among people who just want to get shit done.

The truth is, Google and Facebook have long been colonizing the entire Internet way before their decentralized counterparts could even figure out how to make their shit actually work.

There are only two (2) greatest invention on the Internet (and technology in general) namely: Artificial Intelligence and Quantum Computing.

And who's leading the game? Google, Microsoft, IBM, Facebook, Amazon. Surprise eh? Not even.

Why is this so? Simply because these people are the only ones capable of creating god-like inventions due to their infinite $$$ supply and exclusive technical capabilities. Governments can't even compete. Case closed!

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Cyc is older than Google, Facebook, Amazon, but there are reasons why we aren't all using Cyc. The business model of Google, Facebook, Amazon, are the key.

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The project looks like it is done in a waterfall model. The development travels in a linear progression where the next phase begins once the previous phase is complete (tml, alpha, beta, tau and agoras market). The advantage of this type of model is that it would provide quality, reliability and maintainability to the project. In contrast, it's a long walk for something tangible to appear. This would probably be the best development cycle choice category since the project is very complex and has a huge impact to humanity.

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I see it more like if a project is extremely difficult to implement (has a high rate of failure at the implementation level) then the most critical phase where something can go wrong is right now (the code writing phase). What I mean is the reason TML is taking so long is because the project is so ambitious and there can be zero bugs in something as mission critical as the core of TML. So you are right it's about quality/reliability and maintainability.

It is also the fact that the theory behind what Ohad is doing is so complex that at this time no one can help him. So it's still at that immature stage where he's still figuring out how to code it himself and no one really knows his vision better than he does at this time. When it gets to a point where the most important components are coded then you will see other programmers begin to chip in and the speed of development accelerate.

This is not like Ethereum with Solidity. Some people believe Ethereum was a rushed design which was hacked together for speed of implementation. A deliberate approach also could have been taken with EOS which also had major flaws at launch. If you're going for provably secure, provably correct, decidable, etc, then yes it's now more complex.

A compiler alone could be easy. In fact if I were going to do it I honestly would have hacked something together from other projects which have compilers. But Ohad wants to do it all from scratch to meet his specific and precise criteria. Because nothing similar exists this means he has to research and learn while he's coding which seems to be why it takes a long time. He has to determine whether to go with bwd chaining or fwd chaining, or why pfp is the only suitable logic and what the consequences to the design will be because of this.

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I agree almost completely but there are alot of good technologies in the crypto but they are all hidden by the fact that there are so many of them out there. If I am someone who wants to get into these then I either have to be in the crypto industry looking for certain things or just so happen to know someone who is or wait a decade or two. This imo what bottlenecks all of these great new techs coming up.

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If you have free time, look into it and go over everything you can find. Even the IRC logs. Take a week or two, or more like a few months like I did. I'd say that it's worth it.

"any effective means of discussing and collaborating without being all over the place"

Does this mean Tau will call me out on straw-manning people by repeating their arguments slightly wrongly, then debating the wrong words I just put in their mouth!?

Does this mean the end of "what abouting" people, where I don't even bother addressing their points, but just accuse some other person of being worse than whoever they are complaining about?

Oh no, my world is crumbling. :(

Seriously though, this sounds like absolute genius. Any technology that can speed the reaching of points of consensus frees up so much time to reach consensus on what's left. The human race really stands to benefit from this, even if I will lose a lot more arguments lol!

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I think it might turn out to be a surprisingly fun tool.. will see!

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seems with tau we back to the old greece debating about everything.

On a lighter side...Tau in India is referred to the elder uncle...i.e the big brother of your father.

Looking at the in depth analysis..i would assume its going to be the top most thing in crypto world....as in Tau of crypto world the big uncle...😉

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I've heard so much about Tauchain (even though my understanding is still limited) from respected steemians here that I will be greatly disappointed if it does not live up to that potential

I see it as a collaborative platform built on AI where World problems in various spheres can quickly be linked to solutions in various spheres. That is pretty revolutionary if done successfully.

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It will live up to the potential or not depending on the quality of the initial community. Join with us if you want to help tilt the odds in favor of success.

Investing in the tokens seems to be the most direct and effective way of showing support to the project. I've been eyeing on the Agora since it was delisted from the last exchange and cannot find a reliable source of getting some for a few months.

Maybe you should share more info on this matter as well?

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It's right on this decentralized exchange: https://openledger.io/market/AGRS_BTC

Just because CoinMarketCap will not list it for whatever political reason it doesn't mean it's not on any exchange.

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One would hope that more than a single, relatively low liquidity, exchange would make a market for the token. Not too many people would mistake the current situation as a positive sign for future price potential, myself included.

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That is why I said nothing about future price potential. These days I say if you want to support the development of Tauchain/Agoras then buy the token. If you are hoping the price of the token will reach some target as part of speculation then maybe this is not the best time to consider buying the token.

I don't blame anyone who decides to wait until it's listed on more exchanges with greater liquidity. If you're buying the token for these two reasons I will list then I encourage you to go for it:

  • You want to support the continued development of Tauchain/Agoras (the token pays for development indirectly).
  • You want to buy the token because you believe the project if successful will make the token useful for what you want to do (science, trading stocks, developing apps, etc).

If you're in the first group then you have no reason to care what the token costs because it supports development. I admit this perspective is probably rare.

If you're in the second group and you believe Ohad will be able to pull it off then buying the token at this price is like buying Ethereum at 50 cents or Bitcoin under $1. If you think Agoras will be able to allow for the building of apps which no other network and technology will allow then of course the token which powers those apps will have value. Similar proposition to EOS in a way.

Depending on what apps you decide to develop over Tau it should be easy to create an app which can generate far more profit than whatever you paid for the tokens. It is true at some point more people will have to trade the token but the demand for the token will be created only if there are exclusive apps which can't be built on any other platform.

Considering how Tauchain will work no other platform will even come close to having similar capabilities. So if you're a researcher, or a trader, and you have access to a platform to give you a competitive advantage (saves time and money for you) then you can win by getting the tokens now while it's at potentially it's cheapest. Once your competitors find out about Agoras they too will want to use it and you'll already have all the tokens you'll ever need.

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If you're in the second group and you believe Ohad will be able to pull it off then buying the token at this price is like buying Ethereum at 50 cents or Bitcoin under $1. If you think Agoras will be able to allow for the building of apps which no other network and technology will allow then of course the token which powers those apps will have value.

I've always been one to put a small percentage of my profits into high reward stocks/ cryptos/what-have-you with at least one good selling point (preferably many). That said, what Tauchain is offering, in terms of being able to invest into the product, is weak and, frankly, pathetic.

I agree that the concept behind Tauchain is something worthy of getting excited about. I AM intrigued by the project. But, dayum, does Ohad care even a little bit about investor awareness...like, at all? Because if he does, he's inept at branding and investor relations, to put it lightly.

I want to see some signs that the man both cares about its success and has a bit of what it takes to build up some positive momentum. Seeing the token on one measly decentralized exchange (something that 99 out of 100 crypto traders/ investors wouldn't even consider touching) isn't it, it isn't enough. IMO, the odds of building any type of momentum worth speaking of are very, very low as it stands; as in, not even worth a "lotto" play on it - THAT bad!

What would be a good sign for me is that he's willing to put down a little bet that he has something worthy of our attention, by paying a few noteworthy crypto exchanges enough to get his token listed on their platform(s).

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MVP in my opinion should come first. Investor relations requires MVP. Otherwise what are you investing in?

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An idea (concept). I'm just speaking to your comment about getting in because you believe in Ohad's vision and capabilities.

I agree that it's attractive to get in at the ground floor, but only if the floor has at least a few squares to it.

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Get in where you fit in. It is entirely up to you. I trust in Ohad's competence after communicating with him over years. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but to get rewarded you must take a risk. In general, if Tauchain can be created I'll have to use it because of the competitive advantages it can offer those using it.

And those competitive advantages will form the basis of value behind the token. If you simply can't do it on any other platform then you have to buy the token.

Intriguing proposal! Some of the most intriguing things that might be learned from Tau aren't how it works, but how - and who - work to corrupt it.

If it does work well, the opposition to rational discourse it engenders will be legendary.

Thanks!

Excellent write up - and we loved the mix at the end. This reminds me of a blockchainified LOOMIO - I will read the whitepaper in the next car-ride and get back to you.

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Hey thanks! Oh there's an old whitepaper, the new one's being worked on and only after demo. One of those uncommon dev cycles :)

Fascinating. I love what they're saying, and can easily conceive of how it might work... but I haven't the faintest idea of how seamlessly it could be integrated into how we communicate, and can imagine all kinds of pitfalls if people got excited about the potential and began relying on it before the kinks had been worked out. I can also imagine that humans are different than I think they are, and that scares me. Someone is right and someone is wrong about what humans are like generally, and if they're actually meanies that are going to decide to do things that oppress others, I really hope they don't have the tools to see how many of them there are.

But that's not a real fear that should hold us back from something like this.

I am cautiously optimistic about this project.

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The innovation is really Tau Meta Language, which is a specific class of logic that is decidable, self-referential, and supports negation - the 3 characteristics of a definitive language of law. With this we can scale discussions, collaborate, and store and synthesize knowledge and software, etc, since Tau is essentially a blockchain that only stores the rules of the network and the rules of changing the rules. Do drop by the IRC and Telegram channels if you have more questions!

Logic based AI will never deliver what is promised here, way too limited. This reminds me of the AI expert systems of 30 years ago with an extra meta level. It sounds nice but it will become utterly complex, think of the amendments on the amendments of e.g. law. He thinks he can avoid that by encapsulating semantics and wants us to speak in that encapsulated language. No, honestly, I am not convinced of this project. The only thing I really like is using block chain technology to grow a kind of brain, great application of the tech but waiting on better implementation of it.

I didn't know you are running a witness node, will try to remember it next time I open vessel, which position are you more or less?

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Logic based AI will never deliver what is promised here, way too limited.

Logic based AI is already in use! If others have a demand for it already then why would it somehow not work here? I would love to have access to expert systems and super computers like what governments can use to help me improve my decision making.

Here is an example of what logic based AI (the same kind empowering Tauchain) can do:

Compliance is a huge problem in the crypto space. Imagine how much time and money can be saved if these functions are automated?

Value is produced if a product can save time for the users. That is all Tauchain will have to do to be useful to me. If it can allow me to do more in less time then it has saved me time and the Agoras token has value.

And logic based AI can do that better than pattern recognizing AI. For decision making pattern recognition AI is very limited compared to logic.

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Hi, I was in AI myself as well about 10 years ago for a short while, but that was machine-learning/pattern-reg. I didn't know much about symbolic AI until last year and still don't know much about it at all. Anyway, I think you should check out more about what the project is up to, Ohad has put a lot of thought into it and it'll be great to have more people asking the hard questions. As for your concerns about amendments on amendments, check out this blogpost: http://www.idni.org/blog/the-art-of-self-reference.html

Thanks for considering btw! I think I'm at about #60 at the moment.

Babel?

The Internet of Languages
There is no single best language for all purposes, which is the reason we're building the Tau Meta Language (TML): a language intended to define other languages and translate between them while maintaining the same information. TML allows seamless communication and semantic translation between programming languages, knowledge representation languages, visualization and organization formats, domain-specific languages, and more.

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Hmm as far as I understand, it's through connecting languages so there's no one universal tower, or language.

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You're right. 😊@KevinWong

Now the whole earth [a]spoke one language and used the same words (vocabulary)........
9 Therefore the name of the city was [b]Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the entire earth; and from that place the Lord scattered and dispersed them over the surface of all the earth.
Genesis 11:1.

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from the logs:-

10:09 < naturalog> 1. the is no universal lang
10:09 < naturalog> 2. so we come up with a metalang
10:09 < naturalog> 3. but that's back to 1
10:10 < naturalog> 4. so the metalang need to be able to redefine itself

Yup, which is why the metalanguage is based on a certain kind of logic that is decidable and is self-defining.

Don't forget to tell the people where they can buy the Agoras tokens. In order to support the continued development of Tauchain it is necessary to buy the token.

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Ah thanks will add it in later. Well not being in any large exchange isn't exactly a good position for most.. I just wonder why not many are using bts/ openledger.

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When if I earn more then I'll go on there and buy some more AGRS myself. I mean if no one else thinks it's worth what I think it's worth then why not?

With all the hype around it I sincerely hope it is that next big breakthrough we've been searching for

wow. that was an intense long read but with some baller information. its totally true, with all of the new tech coming out, we are limited to bandwidth expecially in the cellular world and we cant keep shoving satellites up there! this is way out of my league of smartness, but it was a fantastic read, and im definitely gunna continue following for more information on this project and guy!

@kevinwong thanks for providing information about tauchain, I'm very much interested to follow the rest of the article series.. have a great day

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Thanks for bringing up this topic again. It helps the layman more and more to understand a technology which one day may be as common as novadays blockchain.
Still I cant' imagine how all that involved logic will deal with human illocical thinking in discussions, small and largscale. Think about how hard it can be to discuss special topics with a women. Inspite of some arguments beeing irrational or emotional often the make sense. I have the feeling that Tau will be very helpfull in technical and science discussions more than in normal general human affairs.

Tau is infinite, the future is happening!

The project simply looks incredible if they do work consistently this could be the game changer for sure

So, a Human-to-Overmind interface of sorts? I dig the idea.

I wish the article was a bit more succinct, but then I am somewhat technically-minded, perhaps not the target audience.

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Hi, yes, this intentionally written for the layman. Feel free to ask any technical stuff in the IRC channel, they'll be more than happy to answer.

Thanks for this dude.

Man, just so happy I got into Tau by chance from a recommendation by @rok-sivante. Plain and simple.

Heres to hoping

buying of agoras token could help alot i think ?? what do you say ?

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well if the project works, don't even need to own the coin. it'll already be a huge win for mankind, in my opinion.

I am hoping to benefit from it if they would makes sites like steem communities @kevinwong so there is something out there waiting to happen regarding this Tau chain that you thoroughly explained.

This seems so promising and I hope it will stand on its hype and do the necessary to stay on the go coz many of us already fedup with so much promises but in the end - fail.

Nice, i hope i can join

After such hype I just hope it doesn't become a flop like substratum.

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Lol much has happened since. Barely holding any random coins now. But Substratum still seems to have something going for it although I ain’t watching anymore

Question - it doesn't seem very clear as to where one could invest in some of these tokens in the US. Is EtherDelta the best route? Any recommendation so I can keep this on my radar?

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Tauchain will have no coins just like the internet. But the founder has plans to build Agoras on top of Tau, which will have its own coin so that's the closest to being to invest in it. Still a long way to go. The tokens are currently only available in Bitshares / Openledger as AGRS (or OPEN.AGRS)

Edit: here's the recent update from the team: https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/9eg1cy/tauchain_community_update_september_2018/

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Thanks a lot. I use Bitshares/OL regularly so I'll look into that market. Fingers crossed there's some liquidity there.

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Barely any liquidity. The team will only push for more marketing and listing when the MVP is done I guess. They only took 3% of the total supply for themselves, which is why they're not so readily giving out insane amounts of coins to exchanges just to list at the moment. The exchanges will look for them when there's something up :)

That's a very interesting article. We didn't know about Tauchain and are keen to read more about it.

This is a widely used text that covers a range of topics beyond formal logical systems. You can construct several different courses by selecting different chapters.

Covers basic concepts in argument analysis, issues involving logic and language (meaning, definitions), informal fallacies, categorical logic, propositional logic, predicate logic, and several topics in inductive logic.

Texts like this are a great reference to have if you're curious about what formal logic is all about or need a refresher from your college classes. They tend to be strong on the formal logic elements and weaker in other areas (informal fallacies, inductive logic).

Seems like a cool idea. I get the basic jist of it. Still, i dont think its doable. What i think they will end up with is something very limited in scope.
Blockchain tech itself is very easy to understand and works on simple principles, this on the other hand seems extremely complex and convoluted.
I think they had an ambitious idea and they will deliver something, dont think it will be what you expect.
Hope im wrong but thats the case 99% of the time with ambitious projects like this.

A few more things..

  1. If you dont fully understand something, which you admit you dont, place your bets cautiosly.
  2. A smart and knowledgable man will trick you more easily then a fool.
  3. If its too good to be true, it most likely is.
  4. Claiming that you will reinvent the internet (and beyond that, "everything") is such a grandiouse statement that i would be sweating right now if i put money into this.

Id consider Kevin, if i was in your shoes if you werent just wooed by a smart and technically adept person that knows more about this then you?
Ive read a few things they claim they will be able to do and honestly it seems like fairy tales.

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i dont think its doable

Same thing was said before a computer defeated Gary Kasparov.

I think they had an ambitious idea and they will deliver something, dont think it will be what you expect.

even if they deliver a fraction, it's worth looking forward to.

PS: you added few things.. will leave for the smart ones to answer :P

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Sure. But youre making a leap from a computer beating someone at chess to someone claiming to basically reinvent modern society on all levels. From business to how we function as a society.
If there was a more far fetched statement to be made i cant think of it.

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of course. i do not expect him to roll out Utopia. a project this big needs a working demo - which isnt out and is the reason essays on Tau remain uneasy in the eyes of many.

Even when he gets it right, i do not expect him to "basically reinvent modern society on all levels. From business to how we function as a society" all by himself.

Satoshi opened our eyes to blockchain, today, we have Ethereum built by a skinny disciple of his and i am replying you on a blockchain which plans to mirror Ethereum's ERC20-model come next year to tokenize the web and change social media as we know it.

The only thing i will say here is: Tauchain is worth looking into.

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Everything is worth looking into if youre invested in crypto with your time and/or money.
Educating yourself on viable projects with potential and those without helps you contrast the two.
Ive listened to a few of the dev interviews and while the use cases he mentions are really straight forward and simple to understand, his ability to deliver i question greatly.

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Totally understand. Before I met him I would have thought the same thing. Rarely do I meet people who are more knowledgeable in computer science than I am. So if anyone can implement it then he's one of the most qualified people in the crypto space.

And Ohad is not all by himself. When he has problems he seeks advice from others. If any of us has knowledge in an area where he doesn't then we give advice or offer assistance.

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I don't think anyone can know the impact on society but it is known to be technically feasible if TML can be made to work. TML is what would make the rest of the project technically feasible.

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Hi thanks for your concern. Of course, I'd be a fool to say that I understand it completely since it's literally a new invention that is going to solve some of the biggest problems in life (and I've been looking for it for a long while now). If you have picked up the technical background(s) required for the subject matter, you can check it out yourself and make your own conclusions. My conclusion is "could be", although you seem to think that I'm saying "will be". It's even in the title.

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I did all surface "research" i could. Reddit. Agoras, the promotion video, reviews, specific claim paralels to existing tech, the drama over the split... Etc.
Mainly because you teased this for a while now. Read the review of someone that claims and seems to be well versed in the field that has talked to the main dev.
And he was sceptical in a reasonable way.
I for one hold the opinion that human progress is only limited by our imagination, so as @dana-edwards says i believe it "is doable", but from the inception of the idea to the realization there is a long road and this really looks like something a team of the size of google or apple could probably develop. A small indie team regardless of their prowess might just be biting off more then they could chew.
Just saying be careful...
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence..
In this case evidence being use case at a larger scale then the demo they offer.

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I know it's doable because the technologies being used to create Tau for the most part have been done before. The only truly novel part is the TML part which I have never seen before but that is also the part which Ohad is working on right now. It means if he can just build that then the rest is easy in comparison because it is already known how to do the other stuff. Cyc already exists and so people know how to recreate that. RDF? It exists and people like Tim Burners-Lee are working on semantic projects like Solid so again the know-how is there. Logic based AI? It is actually older and more well known than the deep learning stuff. Program synthesis? This isn't new either and neither is formal verification.

So all of it is very doable if TML itself can be made. And the moment we have TML then in my opinion we are safe. Once there is TML and it works then the alpha will be doable and we can collaboratively build out Agoras and everything else.

Great project. good luck as we look forward for more of your improvements. I think this will turn out to be a great added value to blockchain technology.

Masterpiece.

👏👏👏

No commentary to add beyond that. This is undoubtedly one of the top two or three best pieces written on Tauchain to-date.

Keep ‘em coming... 👌💓⭐️

Great project. Thanks for explaining.

Very interesting concept AI is future hope it will come soon.. Thank you for post

Awesome Carry on My Friend

That's what Google is more or less using, it Ctrl-F's the internet with an open thesaurus - Ohad (Tauchain)

Definitely worth studying

this might be the next big things.

I have been reading that it's so good.

@kevinwong This is a clear and engaging introduction to deductive and symbolic logic with one chapter on inductive logic. The chapters sequentially build on one another, and the text provides argument examples from various sources including pop-culture, politics, and philosophy.

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Well said, brah.

Tau is a form of an advance technology at its best! It's an impressive program and i congratulate the entire team for a job well done.

puzzle-3223941__340.jpg

Sorry to bitch but I think it's one of the many low end projects with low perspective or low reason to exist, not putting a penny in it...

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Then you clearly have understood very little about it.

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You are right, that's why I may have a doubtful opinion. Could you give me your 5 short arguments supporting this and enlighten me? Much appreciated, cheers!

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  1. Scaling discussions and...
  2. Enabling the automation of collaboration and consensus derivation, through...
  3. Augmented/artificial intelligenceenabling...
  4. Removal of language barriers and...
  5. A global knowledge economy...

complete with all the benefits/features/advantages of the decentralized blockchain model, including but not limited to the use of smart-contracts and DAOs facilitating the architectural development and execution of solutions to a wide range of global challenges perhaps only possible with the fusion/interconnection of these five components.

...

Thank you for that question. Was an excellent exercise in simplification, equally as enlightening for myself boiling that down. Took me about a year sitting with all I had read to begin comprehending the project, so is really awesome to serve in distilling the vision for easier comprehension. :-)

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You are welcome, and I'm glad to have picked up on your comment and challenged it. Indeed, the ability to summarize relevant info is one of the triggers for greatness. I don't doubt your knowledge of this, I'm a mere noob, just picked this because of the post spread, tbh, but, it doesn't click for me , even after your summary, and maybe because of lack of thrust in recent ICOs/new projects, vs. their thesis and let me give a short feedback where I can, hopefully if you can contradict this, hoping you can allow my selective "attacking" orientation:

  1. & 2. so people decide what is relevant in terms of topics and what should be voted on (subjective thoughts which we already have and choose what is relevant and what we can debate on). This can be guided by whales too, besides the fact it's a subjective choice. Ok, but given "fake news" perspective, even AI can't get to the root of the truth.
  2. & 4. Look at Google and Amazon, pioneers in terms of technology, best in class devs', and they still can't implement, eg. language based Alexa or Google AI. And these guys are leading Voice techs and guru's. Best they've done is implement translate.google.com which they've still haven't linked to AI.
  3. The Internet is the best knowledge repository, just that the search engine needs to be objective and not handle tags or SEOs, which otherwise you can't tag things, so their thesis would be to change the internet as we know it, which is also impossible otherwise it would have been already available...I doubt they will find the next Vitalik genius to figure it out.
    It's too hard to near impossible what they envision, if they just want to build a voting platform, trust me, it's being implemented without tokenizing in each country/region, as you need particular country based solutions, just access needs to be www.
    Thrust me, I'm looking for the next ICO I should invest in, I might be wrong, thus I'm open to opinions, but I doubt this, and I would not invest. As we're on the same boat looking for investment success, I look forward to your feedback. Cheers!
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#1: Check out this blogpost: http://www.idni.org/blog/tau-and-the-crisis-of-truth.html

#2: you're thinking in terms of commercial AI, which is machine-learning / pattern-recognition and they're probabilistic, not to be mistaken as logic. Tau is about logic. For me, it's this realization that changed my perspective on the project's feasibility.

From my post:-

It's worth noting that AI in this case is more of a buzzword for marketing-speak, and it is actually not of the same variety as the industry standard implementations of deep machine-learning.

The distinction that must be made is that Tau is not the kind of AI that attempts to guess what the world is around them, including that of our opinions and the things we say or do. Instead, what we choose to communicate to Tau will be as definite as computer programs. It can be thought of as a persistent logic companion that helps us improve the scale our reasoning, logic, and bandwidth.

We can take the time to share what we want to share on the Tau network and most of the logic-based connections and operations will happen in the background over time, even when we're not paying attention in-person. Again, the use of the word AI is a misnomer here because it usually paints the picture of AI agents attempting to mimic human autonomy. That's not what Tau is about. In this case, thinking about Tau as just a logic machine should provide better clarity on what it actually is.

#3: Check this out: http://www.idni.org/blog/from-agoras-to-tml.html

There are a lot of materials you can find, but I'd say going through the blogposts on the website a few times. Hope you'll find what you're looking for, if not better :)

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Well-said.

It’s actually respectable how the team has not chosen to use the “A.I.” term In their marketing, as it really isn’t - at least in the sense most people understand/view it.

There’s an aspect to Tau’s components that could be comparable to or resemble some form of “articifical intelligence” - though whether it was @dana-edwards or someone else who first started using the term “augmented intelligence,” that angle might be a little closer to accurate - though still not completely.

This really is a challenge to put it all into everyday language, given the innovations are pushing into new territory. It’s semi-helpful to use familiar terms for reference, in order to help people connect some dots to what they already comprehend - though limiting at the same time, for doing so also tends to box the mind into preconceptions and presumptions which fail to keep the receptive to exploring the new, which hasn’t yet been crystallized into definition easily-able to be communicated in old contexts...

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I also suspect it’s common to group words like “logic” and “computer” as the same thing, so one wouldnt be in the mind to differentiate it. I haven’t found anyone who’s more precise with their words like Ohad before so I think it’s best not to just glance through his writings, but read into them..

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Intelligence amplification (IA). I could describe Tauchain like Memex but for logic.

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Congratulations @kevinwong!
Your post was mentioned in the Steemit Hit Parade in the following category:

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Sounds like it has astronaut potential to me.... MOOOOOOOOOON!

Please read this post to find out. Hope to give more details about this. Then we can learn more. This post will benefit me a lot. Thank you very much

nice post

It's very likely that the project will take off. At least, the token is an added advantage.

The Greatest Invention!!!

Tau is upcoming Future

I've been researching what does this actually do and hands on examples. I've watched his two interviews and it seems interesting but it still doesnt give any solid base information. It's been three years and this projects just seems like a Scam to me. I dont want to be a party breaker but lets be real.

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The type of scam in which extended amounts of effort are put into developing an actual significant innovation, focusing on building a prototype that can fulfil the vision of solving massive problems, before putting any energy into marketing, avoiding any sort of hype while hunkered down at work on tangible, breakthrough achievements...? 🤔

The world could probably use more of these types of “scams,” in that case...

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avoiding any sort of hype while hunkered down at work on tangible, breakthrough achievements.

That's Ohad's only sin. A reflection of the world we live in. "The crowd" brings out money when you lie to them.

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I don’t understand how that could be perceived as a “sin...?” 🤔

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Exactly!

The logo is too similar with TokenPay but the project has a big potential.

Great post.... Visit my post to learn another platform media that pays you...

You got a 34.39% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @kevinwong!

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Good post

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sounds amazing project , lets hope it will rock the crypto ecosystem

Great project. Thanks for explaining.

You got a 66.46% upvote from @upmewhale courtesy of @kevinwong!

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This is one of the best blogs for those who are new in the crypto market and they don't know about the best trading exchange option.

Upvoted and resteemed!!!

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Please say that you like Neo network too. Or it is much better that eth or qtum. Lol😂

Nice and helpful post.

Hi @kevinwong I'm a bot, and wanted you to know that I've upvoted and re-steemed your post to help you with your promotion efforts! -exp

well done nice article and thanks for sharing this important information about bitcoin

Thank you
For your valuable posting arrows. If the brother is actually writing this post hand a little hand Actually I used to know the video as well as Chinese. Maybe I could have better understood.
After that you thank me.

Brother, please give me a compliment.

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You’re great at irrelevant spamming.
😂

(Not something you’ll likely want to continue here unless you wanna piss people off and get your rep score flagged into oblivion, as it is not appropriate conduct here.)

Someone said.
Need is the mother of invention..
And..

Hey dear @kevinwong today i am so happy because my old post bitcoin price prediction analysis was perfect and now hit 1 target / resistance 1. Look my btc chart today post 🤗🤗🤗

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@kevinwong.
At the face of it, this new technology Tau blockchain which is based on Artificial Intelligence ,sounds outlandish and incredible as has been brought out in your current article.

It also seems to possess some miraculous and magical powers rendered to it primarily due to ability to utilize logic and learning by the technology itself to keep upgrading itself with the time and the consensus of thoughts prevailing on the network at any time. Though difficult to comprehend it can be the reality,especially with the ever astounding things artificial intelligence is capable of achieving.

Simply put ,it astounds me,it excites me tremendously and it appears simply outlandish today,it is akin to creating a living internet which will react to stimulii like any living thing does.
Wish the very best for the project and the people associated with this project.
Wonderful, keep up the good work.

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Nice article

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I've heard about tauchain. People do not believe in one thing. To prove to man, it is necessary to prove. Your post is a post of complete logic. after such hype i just hope it does not become a flop of like substratum
I liked the post very much. Thank you very much for sharing the post among us

I call it bullshit

This is totally knew for me. thank you for the information.

I am charmed at your analytical and conceptual writing. You have focused on different important factors very wisely. I want to read from you more. Thanks a lot.

This article was awesome. Beat of an explanation on Tau! #resteemed

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Good concept of implementing AI with smart blockchain. I don't think they will go for crowd founding. Beside all of this price will vary on whales, nothing else.

well .. i hope i will join...

sounds very promising...

Nice article

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"Tau is a unique programming language that contains a built-in blockchain and DHT networks. The Tau-chain is able to generalise any collaborative work. It provides ultimate information sharing capabilities, with rich ways to query data, infer new information, and act collaboratively. It may serve as a universal source of trustable information

Looking for the end product and its utilization

Why did you put Italy as first image? @kevinwong

this blockchain combination and artificial intelligence will have a positive impact to regulate this new promising sector in continuous and manageable expention

this blockchain combination and artificial intelligence will have a positive impact to regulate this new promising sector in continuous and manageable expention

this blockchain combination and artificial intelligence will have a positive impact to regulate this new promising sector in continuous and manageable expention

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Thank you sir, as everyone is panicking I am taking up some nice cheap positions. There's still so much opportunity in the market!

Does this make it where you have to pay for the knowlegde it has or what? Will it kinda be like a crytpo wiki?

Clearly This seems to be a legit description of tauchain .Even easy for a noob to understand to a certain limit. Great work mate!!

How do you invest in this?

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Tau has no coin, but the Agoras market that's to be built over Tau will have so that's the closest to investing in it. It's AGRS, at the moment only found on bitshares exchange. It's still ways off before Agoras is up though since it requires Tau to launch as a chain, expected by 2020.

one of the new chain in the market , thank you for ur update bro

god bless your work

Cool will follow this project !!

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